Friday, 26 November 2010

Carswell -v- WfW

Douglas Carswell had a post yesterday on the fact the Express had come out for withdrawal from the European Union. I posted a comment to which Douglas Carswell responded in the comments and a reply to that has been submitted, one presently awaiting moderation.

For readers benefit, appended is the 'string':
"The fiction that we can remain part of EU and reform it from within, or "bring it our way", is looking ever more bogus."
And the fiction of you and others that you can remain part of the Conservative Party and change it from within, or "bring it your way" is not looking just as bogus?

Posted on 25 November 2010 19:01 by WitteringsfromWitney
@WitteringsfromWitney: A suggestion, if I may.
Winning people over to the view that Britain should quit the EU is not helped by attacking those who agree that we should quit.

Nor does attacking those who are very concerned about EU integration, but currently fall short of advocating out, help increase our numbers.

Just a thought.

Posted on 26 November 2010 09:50 by Douglas Carswell
Mr. Carswell,

I admire you and Dan Hannan as two of the few in politics today who believe in the fact that we as a nation must be self-governed, likewise I am a firm disciple of devolution of power as outlined in The Plan. However my comment was aimed at the open goal you presented with your original statement and which I feel you would, with hindsight, agree begged the response I made.

Those of us who yearn for a return to self-government, who also believe in true devolution of power are becoming impatient with the apparent lack of 'action'. It is agreed that you do raise questions in the House, however these are just 'batted away' at PMQs by the leader of your party, who is no more a Eurosceptic than was Jean Monet. You and Dan have the ear of the press and media and I feel more could be done on this front, for example.

Then there is the question of principle and political beliefs. Your's and Dan's are more in tune with those of Ukip than the present Conservative Party, the latter being turned into a Liberal Conservative Party by David Cameron and his coterie. You are undoubtedly a man of principle, hence my comment about what seems to be your aim of trying to change the party that you represent from within - which I still believe was a fair comment. What I and many others cannot understand is your continued presence in a party whose current course is at odds with your own views. Perhaps you would, at some stage, like to address this criticism?

In respect of those "who are very concerned about EU integration, but currently fall short of advocating out" I have to say there is no 'half-way house' on this question of EU membership - either we remain a member and agree to cede power(s) or we don't. In other words those you describe as falling short of advocating out are not Eurosceptic and consequently are, rightfully, open to criticism. I also have to question their principles - are they in the House for self-advancement (ministerial positions) and hence mute their dissent, or are they there to safeguard our democracy?
With the European Union being very much "in the news", there is a battle to be fought here and it is a battle that should be taken to the enemy using every possible means. I am afraid that the odd newspaper article and blog post ain't sufficient. The likes of Cameron and his fellow believers in EU membership don't wish to discuss this and they must be forced to do so!

As I posted earlier, following the potential 'bail-outs' of Portugal and Spain, the UK could well be next. Should that happen then watch the "Eurosceptic" Tories running round like headless chickens!


john in cheshire said...

WfW, wonderful. bravo. I have no faith in either Hannan or Carswell. There's talking the talk and there's walking the walk. And they seem to have feet of clay when push comes to shove.

Witterings From Witney said...

jic: thank you! I do still have some faith in C and H, but they need to up their game!

procrustes said...

Well said, WfW! With all the news about the increasingly dire (financial) state of the European project and the recent proclamation by the Daily Express, now feels like an ideal time to impart some real momentum to the whole scepticism argument. One has to wonder precisely what (if anything) it is that DC and DH are actually waiting for before they are willing to 'step up to the plate'.

Witterings From Witney said...

procrustes: Thanks for your comment. I do believe DC and DH heart is in the right place and I do believe them to be men of principle - I just wish they would demonstrate that!

If those leading politicians will not 'step up to the plate' then I can only suggest that the people take a leaf out of the 'students book', but at the same time show the youngsters how a demonstration should be held!

Daniel1979 said...

10-8 to WfW on my card

Witterings From Witney said...

Daniel1979: Thanks, would have preferred 10-4 but beggars can't etc etc....

Seriously, going to be interesting to see whether he (a) responds and (b) takes up my challenge of a post on the subject.

Anonymous said...

Wanted to draw your attantion to this (I tried before but it seemed to get lost - sorry if this is not a duplicate)

Carwell entitles his piece on the Express as "Case for quiting EU getting stronger".

What he is doing is stating that he holds no view that he will risk his career on, and that's what principles are, aren't they? He equates the case for an argument with the strength of support, and I'm afraid that is the view of a proper politician who wants office first and foremost.

Witterings From Witney said...

Anonymous: good points and totally agree with your interpretation as it seems to be the case - unless of course DC intends to surprise us all?